Louttit rebuttal to Sherman on PPD

From: "Diana Botsford-Hopkins" <watchfire_fm@classic.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:32:46 -0800

I had forwarded on Louttit's comments on Sherman's response to
Louttit's critique on Project Preserve Destiny and have received
the following response. The critique is available at
http://forums.msn.com/UFO in the Politics section where it was
originally published.

Diana Botsford
Forum Manager
UFO Forum

[ Quoted ">" passages have been slightly edited for space and
margins reformatted. -- GC ]


From: Mark Louttit (via Diana Botsford-Hopkins)

Replying to...
  Subject: AREA 51: Sherman responds to Louttit's PPD critique
  From: "Dan Sherman" <ppd@earthworld.com>
  Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:15:06 -0800
  Found at: http://www.ufomind.com/area51/list/1997/nov/a29-003.shtml


>>He admitted to committing homosexual acts or an act to get
>>discharged from the Air Force rather than remain in the program.
>This statement is untrue.

  Mr. Sherman, with all due respect, you have stated this The
  only way you could be released from the program that that was
  the one way you could get out of the service. Your sexual
  orientation is of little importance to me and you are on record
  as saying you are not gay....but you also said that you used
  this ploy to get a discharge.

>>According to him the PPD program was a joint US/alien program
>>begun in 1960. Its avowed purpose was to have people who could
>>communicate telepathically with aliens so that when an impending
>>disaster struck and the earth's electromagnetic field was
>>affected and all communications degraded, so that a method of
>>communication with the aliens would be sustained.
>As it was told to me, the goal of PPD was not to provide a
>sustainable means of communication with the aliens during a
>future worldwide electromagnetic outage, it was to provide a
>communication link between human organizations VIA the aliens
>using my (and other's) intuitive abilities.

  Then where did the electromagnetic outage (EMP) effect figure
  in your discourse?

>>.....after he received his initial ELINT training at Goodfellow
>>AFB, that he was selected for the PPD program.
>I was not SELECTED in the sense that they sat down and looked at
>potential candidates and chose me.  My abilities had been given
>to me before birth while in the womb.  There was no "selection"
>process after that.

  Well... I use the term selected because by implication many
  must be called but few are chosen. By your own account you had
  to receive training to develop your gift.

>>This leads us to the first problem: Why was Mr. Sherman allowed
>>to enlist in the Security Police, why wasn't he immediately
>>recruited into PPD upon entry into active duty? Most military
>>personnel are chosen or choose to be in Intelligence during their
>>first term of enlistment, yet Sherman, a genetically engineered
>>empath, is allowed to enlist, enter a career field which requires
>>lower aptitude scores, and works as a Security Policeman, a vital
>>job, but not one requiring above average intelligence or
>I have also wondered about this.  I originally had signed up in a
>different career field but something happened that I had to wait
>if I wanted that career field and I didn't want to wait, so I
>took the Security Police field.  Regardless of these details,
>however, it wouldn't have mattered to the people running the PPD
>show because they could have involuntarily re-trained me into
>anything they wanted at any time.  As well, my intuitive
>abilities could not be uncovered (as I was told) until my mid
>20's anyway.  So there was no rush at the time.  I joined the
>USAF at 18 years old.  Another point: in the USAF, most of the
>intelligence people come from different career fields by
>re-training.  This is because most of the original people get out
>after their first term and the upper ranks have to be filled by
>someone so they get re-trainees to fill the slots.

  I'm glad you raised the same question. What you say about
  re-trainees may be true of the NCO ranks... but when I taught
  at the Intelligence School at Ft.Devens, MA our Air Force
  Training Squadron was mainly filled with young Airman Basics
  (E1s) and Airmen (E2s) right out of Lackland. This is
  ancecdotal but I see a lot of young junior enlisted Air Force
  personnel over at our Regional SIGINT Operations Center here at
  Ft. Gordon. Another thing I find interesting... if your skills
  as an empath were so valuable then why point you into the
  Security Police? A lot of folks don't realize that the Security
  Police are more than just airplane guards or law enforcement...
  they are in effect the light infantry of the Air Force and one
  of the largest career fields. Potentially there were putting
  you into a career field where you would be more apt to go in
  harm's way.

>>Upon arrival at Ft. Meade he is met by Capt. "Blank." Sherman
>>finds it odd that an officer would contact him. We find it odd
>>that he finds that odd, especially in the intelligence field
>>where knowledge sometimes more than rank is held in greater
>Mr. Louttit is correct when he says that knowledge is most times
>more important than rank.  But this has nothing to do with the
>situation I was describing.  This was not in a working
>atmosphere.  I had just arrived to a temporary duty base.  I had
>not even checked in with anyone yet, and I receive a call from a
>Capt. wanting a private meeting.  Usually you are in-processed
>with admin people with the hosting organization and go through a
>bit of familiarization.  The call from the Capt out of the blue
>was just a bit odd in the context of the situation.

  Well Mr. Sherman I don't find the situation you describe that

>>His clearance isn't in , and yet he is allowed to
>>pass with this captain through a rather elaborate security system
>>which presupposes that they already must have some security
>>information about him. This is a violation of the most basic
>>tenet of security procedures. Admittedly he could obtain access
>>with the captain as his escort, but if that were the case his
>>movement and actions would be severely limited.
>When you are assigned TDY (temporary duty) your security
>personnel at your home base send security information to the TDY
>base confirming what access you will need for your stay there and
>the level of clearance you are authorized.  During the first
>visit with the Capt, my name was not on the EAL (entry authority
>list) yet but I was positively identified and the Capt escorted
>me into the facility.  This is VERY normal entry procedures.
>Yes, my access would be extremely limited and that is always up
>to the escort to make sure of.  Evidently entering the Capt's
>office was not a breach of security or he would not have taken me
>there.  The only thing I had access to was what he told me.
>There was nothing of a classified nature in his office, out in
>the open, that I could see.  As far as the classification of the
>info he shared with me regarding PPD, I have already mentioned
>that it has no "classification" per se.  Its classification
>relies upon its invisibility within the system.  In essense,
>being so classified, it's not classified.  It's above
>classified.... ABOVE BLACK.

  Mr. Sherman... I will accept your explanation about getting to
  the Captain's office. I have a great deal of difficulty
  accepting the idea that there are programs so highly classified
  that they are in effect not classified. Why would this be so,
  and why would you not sign a non-disclosure agreement, also why
  would there be no caveat or codeword?

>>Upon completing both day and night schools, Sherman is then
>>assigned to an active ELINT site. He claims to have forgotten
>>which codewords and caveats he had except for one which
>>frequently appears in open source literature. (We can neither
>>confirm nor deny its existence as a legitimate caveat) however,
>>Sherman says he has forgotten what access, in effect he had. This
>>is absurd. One never forgets what one has been read on for.
>>Sherman never claims to have been "read on" for PPD, yet it too
>>must have a caveat.
>I have not forgotten what accesses I had I have simply forgotten
>SOME of the codewords associated with them.  These were not
>codewords I was subjected to day in and day out.  It is evident
>that Mr. Louttit has not been indoct'ed into missions having
>several different codewords associated with several different
>aspects of the mission.  I did not sit around reciting them every
>day.  They were unimportant.  Yes, some of the documents I
>handled in regards to the Black missions I worked on would have
>the caveat "Handle Via _____ Channels Only" but even those become
>invisible to you after awhile.  The point is moot anyway, because
>even if I could remember all the codewords of the programs I
>worked on, I couldn't reveal them anyway.  With Black missions,
>even the codewords describing them are classified.  I'm surprised
>at Mr. Louttit for wanting me to share classified information.
>Because of the onion effect, I can't even comment on the
>codewords at the lower level of classification because it would
>by extension be revealing what they are hiding with the layers of
>the "onion." (Ultimately revealing the Black projects co-located
>with the other, lower classified information.)  PPD had no
>codeword that I was aware of.

  Mr. Sherman I have worked on projects with multiple codewords
  so I do understand the principle.

>>FORMAT: At the time that Sherman alleges to have been active in
>>PPD, all communications via systems and terminals that he
>>describes were through the Automated Digital Information Network
>>or AUTODIN (or simply DIN). This network consists of both a high
>>and a low side meaning that routinely classified and unclassified
>>messages are sent over one kind of message router and those that
>>have a caveat or are compartmentalized are sent over another type
>>of router. Since this is an automated system, either router
>>requires a specific type of message format. One simply does not
>>type data into a blank screen and send the data off to NSA. Now
>>it could be that the format was already preprogrammed into the
>>program, but there is some administrative data that must be "hand
>>jammed" into the message before it can be sent. If a message is
>>not properly formatted it will be kicked back by an AUTODIN
>>Switching Center (ASC) which monitors all traffic, one simply
>>does not sit down at a blank screen and type in data and push a
>>send button, it does not work like e-mail.
>Yes, there was someone else working at my terminal when I wasn't.
>(Again, not 24 hours though.)  Here we again run into Mr.
>Louttit's ignorance of the situation.  He is speaking of a very
>antiquated system where things must be typed into fields in the
>computer screen.  Our system was much more advanced.  We had Sun
>Workstations with 27 inch monitors running customized software
>that would put Windows 95 to shame (this was several years ago
>too.)  With the software we ran, we could do multitasking, having
>several windows open at once.  We ran all of our equipment via
>our software, alleviating us of the need to even touch any of our
>equipment for the most part.  As for e-mail, I could open several
>e-mail windows at the same time and type the addressee, subject
>and message and press send... just like typical e-mail.  So to
>have a screen hardwired to send info to a particualr place would
>be VERY simple to do with the capabilities our workstations had.
>Even if someone accidentally accessed the blank screen I used,
>they wouldn't know what to do with it and it would dissappear if
>unused for more than a couple of minutes.  As for the DIN issue.
>We did have AUTODIN access and we did use it for administrative
>things, but we also had another highly classified pipeline for
>communications that I'm sure he is unaware unless he has worked
>on this project or a few others (which I doubt based on where he
>has been stationed.)  Another example of commenting without
>knowing what he is commenting on.

  I am familiar with the type of software that you are
  describing. Your description of the van you worked in is an
  exact one that is part of the Tactical Exploitation of National
  Capabilities (TENCAP) system.

>>CONNECTIVITY: The type of system that Sherman routinely worked
>>with requires maintenance and upgrades. This is either done by
>>military maintainers and/or civilian contractors. Any software
>>loaded into such a terminal and the terminal itself requires
>>routine maintenance, this means that someone other than Sherman
>>and his handler would have to know about PPD, and those would be
>>the maintainers of the system. This suggests that at least one
>>more person per installation besides Sherman and his handler
>>would have to know about the PPD program. I have yet had to use
>>an automated intelligence system that did not fail on occasion
>>and had to be fixed, and there are times when the AUTODIN circuit
>>is down. Sherman has not addressed the logistical and maintenance
>>aspect of his work and if he pleads ignorance because he was
>>"just an operator" then he is either the dumbest operator that
>>ever worked a system, or he hasn't looked at this aspect of his
>>tale, and has yet to make something up.
>We did have civilian contractors who worked on the equipment.
>I'm sure at least one of them had been indoct'ed into PPD.  I
>have no idea who it was.  If I were to ever have a problem with
>the screen I sent my comms through, I would tell my commander and
>he would make sure it got fixed.  I never had problems with the
>screen though.  We had plenty of times other things went out
>though.  We just called the maintenance people.  I'm not sure
>what Mr. Louttit is saying here in his critique.  Is he disputing
>that I worked in a van, worked with a black project, worked with
>the grey project... what is he trying to dispute.  It sounds to
>me that he is only trying to tell people how much he knows about

  No Mr. Sherman... I'll overlook your ad hominum remarks... I'm
  not trying to tell you how much (or little) I know about
  AUTODIN... what I'm trying to do is verify your claims but you
  are making it very difficult.

>>Sherman claims that as an operator, he did not know the names of
>>the systems he operated. This is simply not the case. The types
>>of systems that provide ELINT information and that process ELINT
>>information are well known to all operators and is taught in the
>>basic ELINT course. Sherman also claims to have an Associate
>>Degree in Communications Applications Technology from the
>>Community College of the Air Force, it is inconceivable that he
>>would not be "not really sure" of the computer operating system
>>used. The types of systems used and even the types of software
>>and hardware are well known and are available in official open
>>source documents.
>Mr. Louttit is speaking from the world of typical ELINT.  The
>projects I am speaking of did not have "names" for the systems we
>worked on.  They were specifically built for the missions we
>worked on and were not taught in ELINT school.  Even so, once
>again, I can't speak of the systems anyway because they involve
>the Black projects I worked on. The systems I worked on are NOT
>available in open source d
>ocuments, I assure you!

  Well Mr. Sherman... you are now telling me that you weren't an
  ELINT operator at all In Italy or Colorado that you worked
  Black Projects that dealt with UFOs which covered up PPD or
  were you working Black ELINT projects?. Mr. Sherman I have
  worked Black Projects and they do have names just as the
  equipment that we used had a nomenclature.

>>2. He carries out this mission in the context of his regular duties.
>>If the project is that important then why aren't all PPD empaths
>>at Ft. Meade doing this full time?
>It is much more difficult to hide something when you group people
>together.  This program succeeds in its secrecy goals because
>everyone is so isolated from one another.  I was not able to talk
>about this with anyone except my commander.  If you are unable to
>talk to others about your job you are less likely to find out
>things about the project that doesn't pertain to your specific
>part.  The ultimate in compartmentalization.

  Well if that is case and you were so compartmentalized then why
  can you talk about it now? It seems to me very unusual that
  something this important would be merely an additional duty. I
  can't totally by into your idea that it was decentralized to
  compartmentalize. If we took that to the logical conclusion
  both Ft. Meade and Langley would be very small places and they
  are not.

>>3. Certain demographics are factors in genetic engineering and
>>PPD people are attracted to the military, maybe even groomed for it.
>>This is a pretty ineffective way of recruiting operatives. NSA
>>and other intelligence agencies employ thousands of civilians, if
>>someone is being monitored by the government as part of a secret
>>program then why aren't they directly recruited into the program
>>as civilians the way civilians are recruited routinely into the
>>CIA, FBI and NSA? If Sherman says that the reason that they join
>>the military is so that they can be checked out we would say
>>that, that is contrary to how we recruit people into our
>>business. A person going into intelligence receives an extensive
>>background check and in some cases a polygraph examination as
>I'm not exactly sure where Mr. Louttit is here.  Left field I
>presume.  Nowhere in my book do I say that "PPD people are
>attracted to the military, maybe even groomed for it.  There is
>no "recruiting" of operatives either.  I have no way of knowing
>whether there are IC capable people in the NSA, FBI and
>CIA civilian ranks.  If I had to take a guess, I would imagine there
>are because I believe there are many thousands of people who were
>genetically altered to have IC abilities.  What the criteria for
>actually selecting one to be part of PPD, I haven't a clue.  I
>would imagine being in the military is one such precursor only
>because of the controls that can be placed on someone within the
>military framework.  I was given polygraph tests as well before
>getting indoct'ed and assigned to certain missions.  So that is
>no different than anyone else.  Just not sure what Mr. Louttit is
>saying once again....

  Mr. Sherman, you need to listen to your radio interview again.
  This is where you make a statement the effect that certain
  demographics were involved in the selection of mothers for
  implants. You imply that lower middle class people were used,
  one reason being that demographically they are more apt to
  enlist in the military. If you weren't recruited then what were
  you? You refer to the pilot friend you had in high school and
  the Intell analyst friend you had in Korea and you imply at one
  point that maybe they were in your life as part of a concerted
  effort and that maybe you had been monitored and "groomed" for
  some time. Taken at face value, Mr. Sherman, if PPD exists then
  someone was watching you for a very, very  long time before you
  were "recruited" (my term not yours).

>>5. Mr. Sherman describes his work as "Intuitive Communication"
>>and then describes a faculty that operates well in passing
>>numbers (hardly intuitive!) and functions even when he is tired.
>>Intuition is largely image based and functions best when the
>>subject is alert.
>I did not say anything about "operating well in passing numbers."
>It's interesting that Mr. Louttit equates what he thinks he
>knows about the dictionary definition of "intuitive" with my
>abilities.  Remember, this is simply a name that was placed on
>this ability, presumably by some human who had not experienced
>it.  One cannot compare it to the standard definition of
>"intuition" and therefore being alert has nothing to do with it.
>It functioned regardless of my state of conciousness.  I even
>mentioned that I had dreamed in a state that seemed related to my

  Then why use the term intuitive? According to you that is what
  you passed, numbers that were geo locations.

>>6. Mr. Sherman refers to Black Programs and Gray Programs.
>>He has a very incomplete understanding of what constitutes a
>>Black Program. His routine work as an ELINT analyst, while being
>>classified is not considered black.
>This, I have to laugh at.  Mr. Louttit has absolutely no idea
>what he is saying here.  The mere fact that he is unaware of what
>he is talking about is the funny part.  Believe me, Mr. Louttit,
>I was involved in two separate Black projects.  I only wish I
>could tell him what the projects were so he could eat his words,
>but alas, I can't do this.  I think Mr. Louttit longs for an
>assignment where he can feel as important as he is striving to
>feel by commenting on my experience.

  Mr. Sherman, I have worked Black Projects one of which was
  directly controlled by one of the sites that you worked with.
  After almost twenty years of service in both the Air Force and
  the Army I don't need to feel important. I am retiring and
  leaving active service on Jan 13th. Mr. Sherman I'll put this
  challenge to you...if you are forthcoming to me with specific
  information...I will do everything that I am capable of doing
  to validate your claims....but I find that it is very
  convenient for you to tell your story and then cite security
  reasons for not going further. I am still working within the
  system and am willing to lay it on the line if we can come to a
  degree of veracity that proves beyond a doubt that your story
  is true. Are you willing to take that risk, Mr. Sherman? I am
  and potentially I have a lot more to lose than you.

>>An extensive search of our data bases failed to find any
>>reference to PPD. This does not mean that there is not a program
>>out there, but we could not find it and we have access to some
>>fairly comprehensive data bases. We found nothing.

  You would be surprised what we have found in our data bases Mr.
  Sherman... the system is not infallable.

>Good luck on figuring that one out

  Got it, no problem

>>2. Find out more about his work as a Security Policeman. Did he
>>guard airplanes or did he do investigative work, if so that would
>>contribute to his glibness.
>I did everything BUT investigative work.  I guarded planes,
>missiles, weapons storage areas, people and even was a customs
>inspector... but no investigatvie stuff.  Sorry.  (What does
>being "glib" have to do with investigative work anyway?...hhmmm)

  Being glib in this sense simply means that as an investigator
  interviews people and after awhile develops good interpersonal
  skills. You are personable and glib Mr. Sherman.... you may
  take that as a compliment if you choose.

>>3. Have Mr. Sherman agree to take a polygraph test. It might
>>prove inconclusive, but then again it might not, If he is telling
>>the truth, he has nothing to fear. (Yes we know that polygraphs
>>are not recognized in a court of law, but they are routinely used
>>at NSA for security purposes and they are good i
>I would be happy to!

  I will recommend that to MSN.... frankly I think it would help
  your case even though some question the effectiveness of

>4. Have Mr. Sherman take the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator Test.
>>This is not required, but many people in the intelligence
>>community do end up taking it at some point or another. This
>>would give us some insights into Mr. Sherman's personality.
>I did take the MB test while in the intelligence field.  I'm not
>sure what it'll prove regarding my experiences but if it'll help
>anyone I ended up being an INTP.

  That in itself is interesting. Inquisitive analyzer
  reflective... more interested in organizing ideas or situations
  than people. Now.... would everyone allegedly participated in
  PPD have the same personality type?

>I realize my experience is hard to believe, but it is true.  Only
>time will tell, for proof of the truth will surface someday.
>Meanwhile, I know I will have to fend off shots by
>self-aggrandizing people attempting to bring to themselves a bit
>of limelight.  It is inevitable.  But keep searching everyone!

  Mr. Sherman.... I am neither self-aggrandizing nor desire to be
  in the limelight... I'm rather surprised at the cheap shot. I
  could be your ally within the system if you were more
  forthcoming. I think you might be the one seeking the
  limelight, sir. In any event I convey to you my best wishes.


  Mark Louttit

| AREA 51 MAILING LIST - A moderated forum for selected topics
| http://www.ufomind.com/area51/list/ - G. Campbell, Moderator
| "unsubscribe"/"subsingle" to: <area51-request@lists.best.com>
| Submissions to: <area51@lists.best.com>
| RELEVANCE OF THIS MESSAGE: Response to previous
| Index: Dan Sherman

Created: Dec 2, 1997