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Re: Lazar Theory #1 [4 responses]

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:18:27 -0700
To: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas)
From: [withheld by request]
Subject: Re: Lazar Theory #1: Fraud for Bigelow Funding

Glenn:

Your theory on Lazar is not bad.  A few comments:

>What was Lazar's motivation?  Money.  Under Theory #1, Lazar cooked up
>the story to obtain funding from Las Vegas philanthropist Robert
>Bigelow, who was known to sponsor far-out projects. (Bigelow is still
>investing millions in parapsychology and UFO research but is intensely
>secretive about his activities.)

[Someone close to the story] said it was to tap into Japanese UFO
money.  There's no evidence Lazar knew anything of Bigelow at that
time, or even if Bigelow was funding such things prior the ZR project.
An alternate explanation was he simply concocted the story to impress
his friends and also to allow him to have a night out on his own
without his wife every so often.  Then he talked to the wrong people
(Knapp) and the story got out of control.

>In fact, Bigelow did set up a Nevada corporation for Lazar, the Zeta
>Reticuli 2 Corp., shortly after Lazar went public. It was apparently
>created to fund Lazar's research into "Element 115," which Lazar
>initially claimed he had samples of. (The government has since "taken
>them back.")

Actually, I have heard someone in the "inner circle' say that the Feds
don't have the Element 115 sample, that it's in some sort of safe
place, the implication being that it was buried under concrete.

>While the existence of the corporation is a matter of public record,
>we do not know how much Bigelow spent.  We do know that the project
>did not last long, and that Bigelow felt somehow burned by Lazar
>(according to sources who have known Bigelow).

According to Lazar's Probation Report, he was paid $30k per year as a
consultant to ZR Inc.  I think ZR was only in business for 6 months to
a year.

>Meanwhile, the story took on a much bigger life than originally
>intended.  UFO buffs swarmed to the story in a way that Lazar could
>have never anticipated, and he became the UFO equivalent of Princess
>Diana, always chased by those who wanted to hear him, revile him or be
>touched.  He has been trying to keep a low profile ever since. Lazar
>has said  that he wished his story had never came to light, and those
>are probably his real sentiments.

Yup.

>The government itself was taken by surprise by Lazar's claims.  It may
>have indeed conducted its own investigation to see if any classified
>information was release (since Lazar did have a security clearance).
>Real FBI agents like "Mike Thigpin" could have visited Lazar. Recall
>that in 1989, the Cold War was not yet over, and secrecy at Area 51
>was still extreme.

One major flaw here I still can't explain.  There were witnesses to
Lazar's home being searched WHILE he was alledgely still employed at
S-4.  That was where Thigpin first surfaced.  I believe this was
before Lazar ever brought anyone out for a look.  If the accounts are
accurate, what the Hell was going on?

>Lazar, however, has never been to Area 51.  I can say this with
>confidence after talking to people who have.  While no one can say
>whether Lazar has ever been to Papoose Lake, which is still a closed
>area, the claim that he had flew to Area 51 enroute to Papoose should
>have been easily provable. Lazar should be able to describe innocuous
>details of the place, like what the cafeteria or plane arrival area
>looked like.  Lazar has never done this, even though he supposedly
>revealed much bigger secrets. Some former Area 51 workers have seen so
>little of their workplace that they cannot completely dismiss the
>Lazar claims, but they do know the cafeteria. One former Area 51
>worker who has queried Lazar on these questions regards him as
>evasive. There is no doubt in his mind that Lazar is a fraud.

You're ignoring that Knapp claims to have checked Lazar's description
of A51 against "sources" who are familiar with the place and Lazar
passed. But then that's Knapp's investigation...

>The "Element 115" claim could have come from contemporary articles on
>exotic elements, such as one in Scientific American in May 1989. Like
>Papoose Lake, Lazar's claims about Element 115 can not be disproven
>because no one has been there.

But not very accurately, as those accounts identified 114 as the
possibly stable element.

>According to this Theory #1, Lazar's "S-4" flying saucer claims are
>completely phony, a con for cash, but he is a smart guy with some
>advanced skills who came up with a good story.  Whether or not he made
>enough money to justify the effort is debatable, but he is still
>guilty of fraud.  You don't have to be successful at robbing a bank to
>be found guilty of it.

Exactly.

Another point is that his propulsion story is absolute crap.  His
"science" is utterly impossible on many, many levels, even among
"fringe" thinkers in physics.

Another consideration is that I doubt Lazar ever dreamed when he was
spilling his story that satellite photos would ever be available of
Papoose Lake!

=======================================================================

From: [withheld by request]
To: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:07:19 +0000
Subject: Re: AREA 51: Lazar Theory #1: Fraud for Bigelow Funding

I agree with your theory #1.

In 1973 I was sent to Site 4, along with two other technicians, to
escort, set up, and train Air Force personnel in the operation &
maintenence of a Soviet "Straight Flush" (associated with the SA-6
missile) that had been delivered to us at Ft. Huachuca, AZ.

When we got it it was inoperative due to battle damage, presumably
from the Arab-Isreali conflict at that time.  The three of us were
assigned to get the system operational, evaluate it, report on it,
and deliver it to the Air Force.

All of these objectives were met.

Site 4 was and, I suspect, still is just one in a complex of
widespread active-emitter locations used for training purposes.

While living conditions were pretty primitive, even based against
combat standards, we were never restricted as to our movements around
the area.

I, too, think that Lazar is full of it!

=======================================================================

From: "Zero" <akazero@pe.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:55:58 +0000
Subject: Re: Lazar Theory #1: Fraud for Bigelow Funding

Both theories ring true.  Financial gain seems to be the common
factor -- Lazar's life-style shows both his need for, and ability to
spend, copious amounts of cash.

One of my sticking points is Lazar's claimed patents (patent?).
Although it's been Huff that most often touts this issue, I remember
a transcript from the Billy Goodman radio show (somewhere in my
files) that has Lazar saying he has a patent.  This is a downright
lie, as the U.S. Patent Office has no records for Robert Scott Lazar.

See patent searches at http://patents.cnidr.org/access/search-adv.html

I might add this to my Wit and Wisdom page, because Huff's brought up
the patent issue on at least three occasions -- once in Lindemann's
"Six Viewpoints" book (page 109, paragraph 5).

If nothing else, this should help speed up the completion of the
Tri-Dot "Liars" page.

=======================================================================

Here is a comment from another list about Lazar.
-- Ndunlks@aol.com

From:   d005734c@dc.seflin.org (Francisco Lopez)
Date: 97-09-22 02:15:25 EDT


From: lizardha <lizardha@sprynet.com>

It has been quite a job for people to come up with reasons to try to
discredit bob lazar.  but almost all of what has been used has nothing to
do with the case. it is a favored disinformation tecnique to cvome up with
all sorts of things and discuss them instead of dealing with the actual
evidence on a case.

Based on the training i got in army intelligence, here is how i analyse
this case.

No one had been talking about area 51. there was nothing to disinform
about. then bob came forward and said that if we went there we would see
flying saucers.

We went there and we saw them.  what he said was true.

Since we had no idea before this time that we could go there and see them,
his information was new, and it turned out to be true.  his story right at
first and years later was the same-and he is not afraid to say he does not
know something.

Looking at what happened to him before and after the time he cane forward,
it appears that the reasons he gave for doing what he did were true.  he
has not gotten rich or got a great job or anything that could be construed
as the payoff for a conspiracy or fraud.  from what i know he lives rather
isolated and he does not do things that would put him in a sitiuation for
accidents to happen.

I do not understand what there is to argue with.  i feel that bob lazar is
a man who fell into something that changed his life and will affect it
forever more, in ways that are not a reward for anything.

I wonder why some people have an emotional and angry reaction against him.
i have never hears any argument against him that held up.

------------------------------------------
patricia weissleader at lizardhaven ranch
'where the critter meets the glitter'


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